Susan Barry of Hive Marketing returns to the Omnicast to discuss all sorts of stupid ways that businesses waste their marketing budgets. Are you making some of these mistakes? Tune in to find out.
TRANSCRIPT (Automated)
This is Tyler from the Omni cast before I jump into this episode I want to acknowledge that there were some audio problems on my end on this episode so my microphone sounds really crappy but just bear with me because I promise there’s a lot of good information on this episode between me and Susan Barry. Som without any further ado here it is.
TYLER:
Thank you for joining us on the Omnicast. I’m your host Tyler Jacobson here with my guest Susan Barry of Hive marketing
SUSAN:
Hi Tyler.
TYLER:
Hi Susan. Thanks for joining us again.
SUSAN:
Thanks for having me.
TYLER:
Again remind our listeners what it is that you do.
SUSAN:
I am a top line revenue consultant for the hotel business. So I help hotels do a better job and solve problems in their sales marketing and revenue strategy efforts.
TYLER:
All right excellent. And what position of person generally hires you if I’m just if I find some sales rep at a hotel and I’m like We need that or do I need to get you hired.
SUSAN:
I think the most likely candidate for hiring me my ideal client is the owner of the hotel. Sometimes the management companies sometimes the brand but usually the owner is the person who has the will and the way to make it happen.
TYLER:
Wonderful wonderful. All right.
So today we have a very fun topic which is what are some stupid ways companies are wasting money in marketing. And we have all come up with are all. You and I are responsible that we’ve come up with our respective lists. And let’s start bizarrely I think one of the stupid ways that people spend marketing in advertising. I mean in ways stupid ways people spend money in marketing is relying on a singular tactic. This is a very philosophical kind of thing. It’s not very specific but it’s when I say that it’s like well we’re going to spend a very small amount of marketing budget that we have on tchotchkies. There’s nothing else. There’s no there’s no real marketing strategy behind it. Just we’re gonna do this one thing and that will somehow equal Yeah customers clients.
SUSAN:
Magic happens. Have you can you think of. OK. So the company has very little money to spend on marketing right. So instead of spending that money on tchotchkies what would be your recommendation for how to diversify if they’re broke as a joke. And I’ll be taking notes during this part.
TYLER:
OK. Well I would say go back to the thing that has brought new clients in the past night and ask a question of have we fully exploited this. And if we have not fully exploit did it how do we fully exploit it.
SUSAN:
Got it.
TYLER:
And that’s what you do with you are minimal marketing budget is you don’t look to reinvent the wheel you look to make a bigger wheel or reinvest in the wheel that already works.
SUSAN:
All right if you’re Khaleesi you bring on Gabrielle.
TYLER:
I’m not Game of Thrones fan.
SUSAN:
Well that’s OK. Everyone else in America does. So.
TYLER:
All right.
SUSAN:
Well my first stupid money waster thing that people do that I think is a dumb dumb dumb but I kind of think you might disagree with me so I want to hear what you have to say is when they spend time and money either by hiring an agency or even having one of their staff spend hours doing this posting Facebook content without boosting the posts without doing any financial backup to get around the throttling. What.
TYLER:
This is beautiful for multiple reasons. One of them is because my next item was boosting Facebook posts.
SUSAN:
That’s awesome.
TYLER:
So I my answer is is is it’s complex it’s not just a yes or no. OK tell me. Tell me why. Tell me what drew you to that.
SUSAN:
What drew me to that. So I should back up and explain that when I started my company ten years ago I started it to exclusively do social media for hotels that only lasted for a very short time my clients were asking me to take on different kinds of projects and I am one where I was once a social media. Expert. I am now a social media idiot.
SUSAN:
So when I sort of left the game it was when Facebook had started throttling engagement to 16 percent ish of your family.
SUSAN:
So in other words if you had 100 fans only 16 of them would ever see any organic content that you posted. And so unless you put even tiny little bits of money behind that content nobody would ever see it. So I may be stuck in the past with this theory that I have I don’t think you’re stuck in the past on that.
TYLER:
I think you’re absolutely right. I. And if you were to ask me say a month ago about organic posting I would say organic posting is dead. Stop wasting your time on it.
TYLER:
I have augmented that a little bit and I’ll tell you why I’ve augmented a little bit because we are going to Paris later on this year. And so one of my buddies started doing she started following all of these hotels in Paris to understand what they’re all about and understand and really you know start having a trip before we have a trip. So I think there is an aspirational value to organic posting.
SUSAN:
OK. That’s a good point.
TYLER:
And if your business can can have that aspirational value I think that you should do that. I think that you should organically post that post on there with the intent of bringing people into your community into your world and really making it a almost a dream for them. All right. Toko who make these wonderful bags and now they make clothing as well. They’re a local company. They’ve built their brand on Instagram through that aspirational lifestyle kind of posting. So in that sense I think that if that’s what your business is. I think if you can arrive if you can make your business arrive at aspiration and provide good valuable aspirational content go to count on the organic and if and so from my distillery clients I’m like Hey you guys should maybe shift up there and refocus. Even though I just told you not to do that. So.
TYLER:
Yeah. And when I say just I mean like a month ago. Marketing and flexible now boosting post stupid. So now we’re going to go into mind boosting posts.
TYLER:
It can be great and I’ve actually won awards through boosting reading my right and won awards through boosting was because I put so much of an effort on the front end running like campaigns on Facebook and on Instagram to the kind of person that I wanted. It wasn’t a general like campaign we. This was for an artist. And so we ran like campaigns to people who have a certain income who like you know Southwestern art and painters and things like that. And so we got really dialed in on the audience that we were trying to attract. Then when we ended up boosting to followers which is what most people consider boosting it actually it hit the right mark. It hit the right mark so well that I thought we had actually blown through our entire our entire ad budget in the first day because it was getting. And I I actually freaked out for a good five minutes and tried to get my computer and go oh no we did the normal daily spend just an exceptionally exceptionally well performing campaign. So I thi nk that instead of boosting I think what you should be doing is I think you should be curating the audiences that get that they get that post. So now you have to understand the audience that’s going to respond best to this or test out some audiences so you can understand the audience that respond best. Now when I’m going to get really deep seeking something like I understood what he meant when he said boost and I don’t understand anything else. All right. So so you can pick who your audience is you can pick their ages you can pick their location their gender you can put in things that they have interests around for you can do audience selection for post this as well.
TYLER:
Yes absolutely. Facebook allows you to do that.
TYLER:
I like to do it through their ad manager interface and not through their boosting interface. But yes you can do that there.
SUSAN:
OK. So you’re saying instead of boosting an individual post do Facebook advertising to a very very very well curated audience but it can still be that post it can still be that organic post I have to go back as an advertiser to a well curated audience.
TYLER:
OK. An audience that’s most likely to say yes.
TYLER:
And there’s a dozen ways to do it. If you have a question about that use please send me an e-mail to Tyler at Omni Phonak with an S pilot on me phonics. A lot of ways to do it. Now let’s talk about this stuff or if you’re in Denver come to one of my Facebook classes anyway right.
SUSAN:
I’m sorry. I was going to say it sounds like our general philosophy is the same which is do not spend a bunch of time and effort putting content out on Facebook and hoping that you’re going to be a runaway success because those days are over. It’s just the tactics that we recommend. So I will stop recommending the same posts and start recommending that people just call you to take care of all their things absolutely.
TYLER:
You’re wasting money by not calling me.
TYLER:
No but I. But so what I was going to say is I. It drives me a little nuts when people are like yea I boosted posts for one hundred dollars and we didn’t get anything. So one what did you expect what you probably expected was to have customers. But if I were to logically ask you what you expected at the beginning about you. I got to know. I just want people to see the person mean something. But then when you don’t get a customer at the back end you’re like oh that was waste money. Yes. And I think it’s important that you know that people understand the marketing funnel that people have to know who you are and what it is that you do. Then they have to earn a little bit of trust with your brand. And then they’re going to look at your competitors and look at their own needs and decide if they ever actually want to purchase. It’s not a one and done deal. So boosting opposed to just a very general audience of people who just generally like your page and there’s probably better ways to spend your money. It’s probably going to be a waste especially if you’re actually expecting a customer.
TYLER:
On the other end of that boom you’ve got what’s your next one.
SUSAN:
My next win is pens. I think that people who spend money on branded end logo pens.
SUSAN:Are Idiots. Discuss.
TYLER:
I’m trying to think if I can remember a pen that I have SEM Rush pen I’m assuming everybody thinks that pens are like the most important thing especially in a sales organization where they’re signing contracts you have to have like a fancy pit. That is the dumbest thing in the entire universe to me by regular all means. Then use that money for something cool who.
TYLER:
I like that because people will be less inclined to steal those pens.
SUSAN:
Regular old ones.
TYLER:
Yeah. I mean why not. Why not figure out who your target accounts are and then send one penny for every month a whole package at home. So that has your name on that package here’s your monthly plan of this hotel chain.
SUSAN:
That is awesome. I love that idea. Or here is a case of pens until you use all of these. You cannot stop doing business with me. So here we go.
SUSAN:
Hello. I like that pens. Terrible. F minus.
TYLER:
Okay. I like that. I’m down. Here’s one that I think is absolute garbage.
And again this is going to. This is going to engage a few different ones but the shop grocery store advertising and I’m going to go into sanitizing Station that’s where it starts. That idea started with a client of mine almost said yes to advertising on sanitizing stations. You know where you get bottle wipes he can wipe down the cart.
SUSAN:
Yes. Which I think most people even use those. But that’s just me.
TYLER:
I agree. But then there’s also the shopping cart. You know where you put the little kid where you put your little kid bottom. Right. The advertising there and then also on the back of receipts.
SUSAN:
No no no. How is that even a thing or any of those like who even looks at any of that.
TYLER:
Well something is right. Like real estate agents I know in general real estate agents are like they advertise on those on the shopping carts.
SUSAN:
I have never. They don’t have that here. They don’t know where I shop. Oh okay. What about the sanitizing stations have.
TYLER:
What about.
TYLER:
I think backs of receipts.
SUSAN:
I know I’ve seen that before. Not at my grocery store but I have seen that before.
But you know a lot of the grocery stores will give you like twenty six feet of receipt with all these weird coupons and stuff like that. And I always just throw it immediately away.
TYLER:
Yeah that’s true. Like your CVS They’re the ones who have the reputation of giving out these receipts better you know for a pack of gum that are more than six feet long.
How much money would they save right here.
SUSAN: I mean what’s the return on that.
TYLER:I don’t know what it would. I mean I guess it’s good because people on Reddit are talking about you maybe but not this context especially not in our environmentally conscious age. Yeah.
TYLER:
So yeah. So I don’t know what what do you what do you think somebody expects.
TYLER:
I know what somebody expects when they are doing the sanitizing station reading Brett grab the wipes and then you can wipe off the wipe off the handle. What do you think somebody expects from that.
SUSAN:
I guess that you would associate their brand with like cleanliness or purity.
TYLER:
I think that the brand one of these things work like oh look at how many brand touchpoint this person is going to have. I mean it doesn’t start because hey they’re in your neighborhood. I don’t remember what I’m not gonna remember you right.
SUSAN:
I mean that’s like taking impressions to like just because we all breathe the same air you don’t get to count me as an impression. Do you know what I’m saying. Like that’s a phrase genius who is ever gonna remember that I can’t even there is a million people who don’t give a crap about your product and will not remember your name and go globally. I can see it in the grocery store doing those placements if you are something that someone can buy in the grocery store that people often meet and forget. For example a large bottle of Advil is something that everyone needs at some point and you never think about it until you’re out right. So large bottle of Advil.
TYLER:5
I could see or whatever maybe that’s a dumb example but I could see that being you know something you could do.
SUSAN:
There is a call to action while you’re standing there pushing your grocery cart around a real estate agent.
TYLER:
Yes tracks like something that you can get there makes a ton of time. Yeah. Yeah I would agree with you on that one. Fantastic.
SUSAN:
What else you got. OK. This one I don’t even know if I agree with myself about this but.
SUSAN:
I think it’s dumb when people spend money on brand identity consulting if they are a b to b service provider that’s pretty narrow scope I realize but like you know how big especially B2C companies will have these branding documents that are which I think are so cool and I love that are like our tone of voice is smart concise and witty not stuff blood but you know that I love all that stuff but I don’t think that B2B service providers need that like a B to C Company guys. But I’m willing to be wrong about this one because I just sort of wrote it down on the fly.
TYLER:
It’s pretty funny because the next thing I have down on here is B2B search advertising.
SUSAN:
So I think we’re behind brands because I feel like I’m so dumb on it compared to you. So good. Let’s talk about that guy.
TYLER:
So if none of your competitors are doing any sort of branding and if they aren’t figuring out who they are right then it’s an opportunity to be a brand amongst the faceless. But I also think that one of the bigger problems that you run into is that you don’t want to be controversial.
TYLER:
You don’t want to stand out from the pack too much. Right. So let’s go. Go for that nice thick middle.
TYLER:
And I think that that is the death of marketing because I said this like six times in the last couple of days. What’s wrong with me.
TYLER:
But the OP you also gave you believe that the opposite of love isn’t hate you know what it is?
SUSAN: It’s neutrality disinterest.
TYLER:
Exactly. Inifference. Yeah.
TYLER:
So going through that thick middle way like hey we don’t want to be too much of this in too much of that we want to be kind of be a little bit of everything that everybody could say yes to nobody is going to say yes to you. That is not why you want go into branding.
TYLER:
You go into branding to set yourself apart. Right. So I think that that is a futile exercise if you don’t really have a reason to be doing it in the first place and you’re not really going to be a little boisterous.
Maybe I don’t know what the word I’m looking for right here with the brand.
SUSAN:
If you don’t stand for anything you don’t need. Oh here we go. If you don’t stand for anything you don’t need to brand for anything because what is the f ing believes. That’s good right.
TYLER:
You need that you need those stickers everywhere.
TYLER:
Don’t make shirts hang out in coffee how you do that like on the backyard computer at my laptops to cram for anything. You don’t need the brand for anything. And. When I say this I think I want to.
Caveat myself a little bit. I definitely think that B2B companies need to have logos and tags and identities.
SUSAN:
You know I mean like you need to have a look and feel and all that stuff but just these like really dramatic branding exercises at least for me if I were to spend money on that I would break up with myself and never speak to me again.
Hey you have to have a line.
TYLER:
I guess it would be B2B search ads B2B search ads can can work. But what I’ve noticed is that there are some. So search ads when you go into Google and you type in search engine optimization and then you see paid ads right and then you see organics organic listings on anything. I think those paid ads are really stupid and let me tell you why because I spent a lot of time having to make those kinds of ads only to watch me go nowhere. Now some exceptions somebody is going to be listening to this and say Oh they work exceptionally for me then what part of my business. That’s awesome.
TYLER:
I’m not going to stand in your way but for most companies if you don’t have anybody in your network you can say Hey who do you know and trust for search engine optimization. You are probably not a very serious client right.
TYLER:
You’re probably going to be put off by price. It’s I don’t know it’s just like it’s not a good source or good good clients in the B2B world.
TYLER:
If you can capture people that way at all and not just get looky loos. The other one that I had to do some work for would like these high end I.T. consultants. Susan I can how many people can you call and say hey you guys have anybody who does rely on anybody for networking. I mean you must know somebody who work in a big business or a medium sized business right.
SUSAN:
Yeah or I mean I could at least ask a smaller network than the entire Internet like posted on LinkedIn. Who do you recommend. You know that kind of thing.
TYLER:
Exactly. Exactly. So I think that for that reason I think B2B search ad is a place to put a lot of effort and put a lot of money and get virtually nothing. Okay.
SUSAN:
That’s it. Can I ask a follow up question mark. Now the question is this. OK.
SUSAN:
So I’m a B2B consultant and you’re absolutely right. If I am not referred to a client then I do prospecting really well researched targeted. Person to person selling. I do not rely on any kind of advertising or anything like that. Right.
SUSAN:
However I have to. And soon to be three products that I want to sell.
SUSAN:
That are not directed at my target paying customer like not the owner of the hotel but somebody who works in the hotel. Do you think that doing search. Or.
SUSAN:
Paperclip ads for something like that would make sense or do you think it’s still a waste of money.
TYLER:
So we’re talking about two different things. One is OK with eyes on somebody to say I have a need. Huh. That’s what I think it’s silly. And by the way that’s a general statement. I understand. Yeah I mean there’s there’s all sorts of options. You actually have. But as a general for 99 percent of people 90 percent.
TYLER:
Hey what’s the deal. But what what you might be asking about is display advertising which is can I put this product in from somebody who’s not searching but they’re still my target audience.
TYLER:
Right. Like banner ads. That’s the best way to say it. I think that that makes a lot of sense.
TYLER:
I think that’s great. Now also understand that they might not know who you are. They might not understand the product right away and they might not have identified their own needs. So you might have to run those ads for months before you actually find a purchase and you start understanding who it is. That said yesterday I got it.
SUSAN:
That’s really good advice. Thank you ladies and gentlemen. I’m turning this podcast into a free consultation for my business.
SUSAN:
I have one last one on my list and then I have a funny one but this one I think Tyler Jacobson involves the time a good 15 years ago when your beautiful amazing wife Sarah and I worked together at a hotel in Denver Colorado and we had a boss who was pretty low on the Richter scale of intellectual earthquake. He was not super super smart. And so anytime we had a customer that we were trying to close his recommendation would be to send them a cookie book. Every single time we’ve got a contract for 10 rooms. Send him a cookbook. The Dalai Lama is coming to Denver. Send them a cookie book. Over and over and over and over again. Everybody likes a cookie book. So you know I don’t necessarily blame him but my last stupid way that people waste money in marketing is by doing a one size fits all gesture so everybody gets a cookie book including the diabetes diabetics instead.
SUSAN:
I think you have to know enough about your customer and your client to do some kind of personalization. It doesn’t have to be something creepy and two under their skin but you can’t do one size fits all.
SUSAN:
What do you think.
TYLER:
I think that yes if you send me a cookie book I will eat the cookie bouquet and I’ll go. That’s me. All right. If you send me a record that I care about then I don’t want to be alive. I don’t think I’m ever going to use anybody else. And that cost 30 bucks probably got a little less expensive than a cookie.
SUSAN:
OK right. And what I would send you is not a record that you would care about but.
SUSAN:
Album cover art with your face on it. So then it looks like your record. Don’t you think that would be cool for you. Now.
TYLER:
I mean it shows that you paid attention to the things I like. Would you be nice but what am I going to do with it. You’d rather have the record.
SUSAN:
Well I mean what am I going to put it in my office.
SUSAN:
Yeah I think you’re in the kitchen and make everybody look eager.
TYLER:
It’s a Donald Trump photo op a Time magazine cover of Vogue magazine right. All right. Duly noted.
TYLER:
Maybe it maybe a gift certificate then to purchase like give me a bandcamp gift certificate. That would be cool. Then I know that I can buy something like oh you’re paid attention to the things that I like.
SUSAN:
Totally. That’s exactly the point. Like knowing doing enough research but not too much research so that you hit the right note.
TYLER:
Exactly I agree with you. All right. And you said you had one funny one. On my album. OK. I emailed this with the intent of e-mailing those people.
TYLER:
So an email list. Yes with the intent of aiming and people having to work for I don’t know but it works for anybody.
TYLER:
But we don’t need if you listen to this podcast before you’ll know that you have so many more options to reach that target audience without spamming them and ruining your reputation or getting ignored. Right. So don’t waste the money on me. Now let’s do that. But then expect that you get to spend more money to actually reach those people in an authentic way that gets you some attention rather than get you blacklisted.
SUSAN:
I could not agree more wholeheartedly to this one for sure.
SUSAN:
My my final one may be slightly offensive so I’m definitely going to say it. And that is actually I would like for you to do an entire podcast episode on this topic. I really and I’m sincere in this desire.
SUSAN:
I really want to know how many people have been converted by door to door Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons coming to tell them about their religion.
TYLER:
I just I just read a whole thing on Reddit about this.
SUSAN:
Stop it. Tell me more.
TYLER:
OK. This is amazing.
TYLER:
And if you’re looking to start your own cult like this nation so evangelizing they know that the conversion rate is next to nothing. It’s not about the evangelizing.
TYLER:
It’s about requiring you to behave in a way that is outside of the norm. And then you get shunned by the outside world but you get accepted by your own team. Right.
SUSAN:
That guy is amazing.
TYLER:
So now I have to sit next to you on a flight. You are feeling uncomfortably compelled to evangelize to me. I’m like I’m trying to watch porn on my iPhone.
TYLER:
But but that interaction from my point of view is going to be very rude because I don’t want to have anything to do with you because you are going to have to evangelize me and and try and convince me not to be the person that I am. So now that makes the outer world a very uncomfortable and unwelcoming place to you. People are just route out there. But then when you come home from evangelizing and you’re amongst your people we’re welcoming. We understand you it’s all love. And it makes you tighter to that religious core while being excluded.
SUSAN:
This is amazing information for me to put into my brain and I’m so glad that I brought this up. Let’s take one more twist. To it.
SUSAN:
How could you use that same evil manipulation in a business setting half of companies like Who are the water filter folks like Amway or Amway.
TYLER:
They have they successfully done that any MLM.
TYLER:
Yeah. Is that already being used in a business contract.
SUSAN:
Maybe so. I mean I think at least in those direct sales organizations there are actual products that you get. So it’s not just like your eternal salvation you get something. So it’s probably less of a I don’t know though maybe I might be right. That’s a good example.
TYLER:
If somebody has made it 30 minutes into this podcast actually they’re like No I know how I’d use it.
TYLER:
E-mail us. Leave a comment right. Because Susan I will definitely be watching this intently. It would be interesting to see what I mean again I’m because I’m a marketer because I live in the age of Big Data. I tend to think that we’re all male on a petri dish at the end of the day right. We’re programmed to behave and do things in a certain way. The ethics behind manipulating that behavior and manipulating that growth in that already programmed action. I think there definitely lines that you can draw there. I don’t think it’s all necessarily bad. I don’t think I know it’s not all necessarily good. But it’s interesting to think about ways. Again and again taking kind of these these waves of behavior these waves that we work as a society and saying OK how can you turn it on. Maybe it can make it a different thing.
SUSAN:
So here’s the idea here’s how you make it a good thing.
SUSAN:
Instead of creating an exterior an un welcoming exterior external world you create a welcoming spot a place where somebody belongs who they don’t normally feel like they want. So Doc Martens in the 80s Patagonia products maybe to some degree do you know what I mean that kind of thing where you find your people through a product.
SUSAN:
I don’t know if it’s exactly the same.
SUSAN:
It feels kind of like the same like giving a respite in this crazy world.
TYLER:
Yeah I mean you’re were you’re raising a flag raising a flag of your identity and hoping that somebody responds positively to it. And so that’s me also now. Right. So maybe everything my malady maybe. Maybe it’s not as complicated as I’m making it out to be.
TYLER:
Validate ideas. How do you strengthen tribe mentality.
SUSAN:
Interesting. Oh great. You had to learn about the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Sorry to interrupt you.
TYLER:
Yeah I know. Isn’t it amazing though. Yes it is. It’s such an interesting rabbit hole to go down into somebody’s figured this out and yes think it was you know this shape and this color over here is actually the shape and this color over here. Totally crazy. Yeah. Oh yeah.
TYLER:
Anyway. So where can people find you. And do you have any good eats forum.
SUSAN:
My Web site is hive like a bee hive-marketing.com.
SUSAN:
And that is all I have to say.
TYLER:
OK. So go visit Susan there. She’ll field your questions about hotel marketing and then you can find me at Omnifonic.com. O-M-N-I-F-O-N-I-C dot com. But you know when I was talking about how B2B shouldn’t spend money on search ads I actually spend money on branded search ads. So if you go into Google and you type in omnifonic with a P H you’ll yeah you’ll find one of my ads.
TYLER:
So you can find me even if you go into Google and you type it wrong.
SUSAN:
Yes.
TYLER:
And if you have any feedback please feel free to share it on the Web site or on YouTube or on Aikins or Stitcher or whatever. Just let us know more e-mail. All right. Thanks for listening. Thank you Susan.
SUSAN:
These are having me. All right keep in mind that.
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